Intentional Parenting Part 1 | Young Families

Who can relate to any of those? Just never say never. Never say never. Because that's exactly what you're going to be doing. All right, well, we are going to kick off tonight.

So to my left is Danny and Laura Christensen. And to my right is Taylor and Stephanie Brown. So Taylor and Stephanie, this is your third year with us. And then the Christensens, this is your second year. And we're just so glad you guys keep saying yes to us because we are just.

We love you guys and we need you. All right, I'm gonna kick it off to the Christensens. How long have you guys been at the refuge? Tell us about yourself.

Hello.

Seven years. It's just been seven years. Wow. That's awesome. Love it.

All right, Browns, how long have you guys been at the refuge? Eight years. On Easter. On Easter. Awesome.

All right, Danny, how long have you been married? 14 years. Good job. As of yesterday. Oh, my gosh.

Happy anniversary. That's so exciting. How many kids do you guys have? How many what? Kids.

Kids. We have three. Three boys. Boys. Seven, nine and six.

Laura, were you at that gender reveal when it was like pink again? Were you hoping for pink? Were you boy mom through and through? I did feel like I was called to be a boy mom, but I did have to process. Totally, totally.

I had one good cry and then I was like, I'm good. Yep. And we're good. Maybe you'll have a lot of granddaughters. Okay, Browns, Taylor, how long have you been married?

14 years. 14 years. How many children do you guys have? We have three. We have a 12 year old daughter, 11 year old son, and a two year old son.

Wow. We love that little two year old son of yours. We love all. We love everyone's children. We love everyone's children, but we really like the two year old.

Okay, okay. I'm asking questions. Okay. I think we're going to ask the Christensens the first question. When you guys hear the phrase intentional parenting, what does that actually look like in your home on a normal Tuesday?

Maybe not your best day. I was going to say. I wanted to actually start off with a quote I heard recently about a pastor on a podcast I listened to frequently. He actually said, marriage is designed to kill you, meaning self. And if it hasn't yet, God will give you kids.

And some days it feels that way. That was well done, sir. Yes.

But it's funny that you wanted to ask specifically on a Tuesday, because Tuesday actually in our home practically is a night we want to have no tv. Tuesday. We're typically here on A Wednesday or other nights. And so we try to carve it out to say, okay, what's the night? We know we likely will be home.

And so we started to do no TV Tuesday. I like it. But that is a constant battle. At the same time, you have things like the Hornets reaching the playoffs for the first time in a decade. So you find sacrifices, but you try to uphold those standards.

I like it. And the one other thing I was going to say, just in terms of intentional parenting, one thing I actually learned many, many years ago, pre marriage was a core framework of biblical manhood developed by a guy named Robert Lewis. It's actually an acronym called race. It stands for reject passivity, accept responsibility, courageously lead, and expect God's greater reward. And so I think even when I learned that many years ago, like I said, a young man, pre marriage, that all sounded good to me.

And I think it's actually come back full circle, even recently, for me to kind of weigh on that, to look back and say, like, well, what. What could that have looked like even better going into marriage? Or even now, what does that look like as a parent, to reject passivity, to accept responsibility? I think there's a commonality for us to expect God's greater reward while not rejecting passivity and not courageously leading and just kind of hoping for that reward. So that's one thing that's been kind of standing out to me recently.

Yeah.

There's a quote that really helped me because I think when you hear the word intentional parenting, you're thinking, it's so overwhelming. We could talk about this all night. Practical ways to intentionally parent. But I heard Lisa Bevere say, your goal as a parent is to make your child dependent on God and independent of you. And I thought, oh, that's so simple.

Simple. And it's so true. I want to point my child to the Lord. And I also want to be able to launch them someday and have them go into the world to be a blessing and. And be able to thrive.

But how, I think, how do we reach anyone's heart for the Lord? We. It's. It's building a bridge. It's connecting with their heart so that you have.

It's a bridge that the truth can travel on. If you don't have the heart connection with them, then they're not going to be in a place to receive from you. So heart connection is huge. Amen. Browns?

Yeah.

I initially think of a verse that in Deuteronomy 6, 6, 7, and I'll just read it. It says, these Commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts, impress them on your children, talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. And so when I think about how does the Lord teach us to or want us to be intentional as parents? This is what I think of. Amen.

Amen. I like it. The reality of intentionality concerning parenthood is it's all of the above of the things that we've talked through. I don't know about you, but I just didn't quit today. That sounds pretty good, too.

That counts. I didn't quit on my kids today, and I don't know. I'm not holding them down for sure of, hey, I stayed in the race, and it wasn't necessarily the prettiest thing I've ever done. But you know what? We didn't quit.

And I think that counts for something, too. So. All right, number two, this is a question I think both of you guys could answer as far as different aspects. But as far as resources are concerned, what has helped you move from being a reactive parent to situations, frustrations, whatever, always reacting to more of an intentional parent. And how do you measure progress?

How do you measure, am I increasing in my capacity? What God's called me in? What's that look like? We'll actually start with the Browns on this one here. So, yeah, for me, a resource that's been super helpful has been the intentional father of a book by John Tyson.

Very practically, that's been something that I try to listen to every year over the past couple years, just as a reminder of just being proactive, like you mentioned in the parenting thing. One thing I did want to talk to, though, is as far as how do you measure progress? Even with that question, I think we just have to be careful as parents not to try to measure the progress of our kids in a linear way. Because with our kids, as we all know, they're all different and how they progress and the rate at which they progress is different as well. And so you could have one child that it seems like a very consistent line of improvement or growth, but then you have another one that is up here, down here, then goes backwards and then up there.

And to measure a child, for me, it goes back to like, all right, Lord, what do you want me to focus on right now with this child? And then how can we help them just take one step forward in this one thing? Because when we try to measure it holistically, I think at least I'LL speak for myself. You can then start to, like, compare to other kids and how, like, well, so and so's kid is the same age and they're acting this way. It's like, no, like the Lord has something for your child that's unique to your child.

Christensen's yeah, I was gonna say it's actually really funny that Taylor referenced that because I actually just finished Intentional Father by John Tyson. I think I had started it no less than three times already. And because I happen to be in a quote unquote book group, believe it or not, with both of these guys, that was kind of just one of those extra pushes to finish something like that. I like to read, but I would not define myself as a reader. I think my wife would attest to that.

I have many books on the shelf with bookmarks in there somewhere, but I actually jotted down. I want to say Pastor Jay may have even shared this stat at one time, if I remember correctly, but there's a Barna Research study that says 56%. So a majority of US Christian adults now view their spiritual life as an entirely private scenario. Wow. And it just made me really sad because it made me want to encourage us to say, these nights are so important, not just from a parenthood perspective, but in general.

But in terms of parenthood. It just made me think, man, if I'm sharing any wisdom, I hope it's with people that are coming into a season we're in now. But also for those of you that have already waited through those seasons as parents and grandparents. Yes. Want to encourage you guys to come alongside young families and share what you've learned.

Amen. And one thing that I actually took from Intentional Father was just giving a blessing to your kids and what that looks like. How. How many people came to young families or have been through maybe an event where we went through the process with Pastor Nathan of Shabbat.

Quite a few. Yeah, we did that. And that was the first time that we had actually done that. And I will say we have not done it weekly, but when we have done it, it has been such a blessing to our kids. And even when we reference getting ready to do it now, they get really excited about it.

Amen.

So even from Intentional Father by John Dyson, he said, kids are going to look different and walk through life different if they're operating from a blessing, not for a blessing. Yes. Yes. And that was something that really stood out to me.

I was going to share a story, actually one of our sons I remember specifically we were going Through a parenting moment with him when he was a bit younger. And he really kind of had a hard shell on him when we would try and discipline. And I can't remember if it was actually at the church or if it was outside the church, but we were kind of giving. Given a moment with him where we were giving him an alternative. You know, is it going to be this or is it going to be this?

And I think Pastor Prabhu was actually within earshot at that time. And our son looked at us and just said, none, choices, none. Choices. And that became like a running joke. Every time we would see Pastor Prabhu, he'd look at us and laugh and go, none, choices, none.

And that same kid, I would almost argue when we intentionally look at him and speak a blessing over him, he's the one that just grins entirely ear to ear and receives it. So it's really cool to see. It's beautiful, man. And I know you two ladies have a lot to share on this. And we have a slide that you can put up that has several resources that they can talk about that they've experienced and or drawn from tonight.

And please share their wealth of knowledge from all of the things you guys know. As far as kind of an aha moment. For me, it was realizing that it's not about me. It's not about me. So for me to get upset or indignant when my child is not doing what they are asked to do do is me setting the standard.

It's my standard you're not living up to. You're disrespecting me when it's about the Lord. We are parenting unto the Lord. And if we really have a revelation of that and our own fallen nature, then we can parent more with grace and humility and just seeing them with eyes of love and compassion and not lowering the standard. It's the Lord's standard.

Don't lower the standard. That isn't grace. To lower the standard, but to not make it about yourself, I think is huge. And that is really hard to do when, you know, I'm not saying, but there's grace, too. And the Lord has shown me as well.

Cause there are times where you can beat yourself up as a parent. And many times the Lord has just been like, laura, you are thinking that you're gonna nail this or you're gonna like, that you can do it. Like, if you really try hard enough and you do the right thing enough that you can do it, you can reach this. And it's like, it's about Grace. You need to receive my grace again.

And. And like something I tell my kids, what he tells me, do the next right thing. Right. So good. That's true.

So good. Thoughts. You want us to talk about the books? Well, just share anything we have on the resources. Yeah.

Okay. So the book Triggers, I recommend for those mamas who struggle with anger and let's just be real. I'm being honest. And so that's. One was very helpful.

And then the other. The Connected Child and the Connected Parent. These two books are geared towards foster and adoptive parents. However, they are actually very helpful for any parent. I think you could read these books and see your own child in it and not just for foster and adoptive parents.

Seasons of a Mother's Heart. Again, it's geared toward a specific group. However, I read it and I thought, man, this could apply for, like, every mom needs to read this book. So Laura read it. It's just so good.

It's so, so good. And then. Okay. An aha moment.

We had an aha moment, actually, during one of our trainings as foster parents. We did what's called a TBRI training training, and that stands for Truth Based Relational Intervention. And this was about six years ago. TBRI focuses on nurturing relationships, understanding the whole child, and addressing root causes of behavior.

No. So if you could. I don't. I'm not going to go into details about what specifically the Lord hit us on with that regarding our own biological children, but it was an aha moment in that it opened our eyes to how we were parenting and where we need to grow. And.

Yeah, because we were taught when we had our first. For the first few years, you need to control your child and nothing else. They are meant to be controlled. And we've spent the last eight years trying to undo that and rebuild the relationship and train our own selves on how to be better parents.

Yeah. I love all of this so much because nobody claims to be the perfect parents, nor do we have perfect children. So knowing that there are resources to be able to help us and to not be so reactive to our children. I heard a quote one time that your children, like the buttons that they push in your output is your weakness with, like, where you need to grow with the Lord. So if you come off angry or overstimulated or, you know, whatever, then that's okay.

This is where I need to work on this with the Lord and not like, well, you are provoking me. Nope, it's me.

Spoil it. That's always going to be me. All right. Scripture, especially Proverbs talks a lot about wisdom being passed down. What does it mean to you guys to actually teach wisdom in everyday moments, not just in formal, quote unquote, teaching times?

Dani and Laura, I would just say being in the word yourself is so, so, so important because if you don't have the Word in you, how can you give it to your child? If in whatever God's teaching you, you can turn around and teach your child and say, guess what? God's teaching me today? The Lord was convicting me because, you know, think of any, any proverb, right? Like, a foolish person very quickly shows that he's upset and a wise person ignores an insult.

So just, there's, it's everywhere. But if you know the Word, then the Lord can actually bring it to mind if it's in you in those moments.

For me, I was going to say handling conflict well is a constant learning process. One thing in being a dad that stood out to me recently, and, you know, I don't know if it's necessarily a generational thing or a personal thing, I felt like it wasn't commonplace for me to have my parents in the midst of conflict after the fact, come and apologize or ask for forgiveness for themselves. So that's something that I've had to navigate and choose. But in humbling yourself, even if you're stumbling through that and it feels awkward or it doesn't feel common, I think me humbling myself to ask my kids for forgiveness and in the ways that I've reacted in certain scenarios, completely takes them off guard in terms of their response to me, and it very quickly softens them. So I can see that firsthand.

I was going to share a personal story. I mean, just this past week during service, my son actually leaned over to me and asked if he could pray for me. And I was, I was taken aback in the moment just because I didn't expect that. And I think my first response was like, oh, really? Right now?

And luckily the Holy Spirit got ahold of me and he just quickly said, like, you better say yes quickly because there's never an inopportune time to have your kids say that to you. And it truly blessed me. But when I processed it after the fact, I just realized, like, it's no credit to us, or at least not me, certainly to her, that I feel like because of that, we have made a strong attempt to normalize that prayer is just talking with God. And that can happen throughout every moment of the day. It's not just an at church thing.

It's not just a before a meal thing, it's not just before bed. And so I think because we've allowed ourselves to attempt to show them that and model that they feel like they can just do that. And to my knowledge, you know, I guess maybe up until a certain age there's, they're never going to know if you're stumbling through even how to do that for them. I think we can get caught up in feeling, especially me growing up, like it feels like a performative thing. It feels like it's got to sound a certain way.

If it's not as spiritual as the next person, you may shy away from it. But I think when it comes to your kids, again, it's just, it's disarming them to a point where they just want to hear that and receive that. Amen. Amen day. It's good, you guys.

Yep. Yeah. So passing wisdom down. I know as we discussed this, I was trying to think of just how I'm doing that practically for my son who's 11. And I had heard this story, I don't remember where, but it was a story of a farmer who was building a fence with his sons.

And then the neighbor comes by and he's like, why are you like teaching your sons with this? It's taking you twice as long as. And the farmer's response was, oh, you misunderstand. I'm not building a fence, I'm raising men. And so with that, I've taken that to heart over the past couple of years with my 11 year old son, just when it comes to practical things around the home.

So if it's mowing the lawn, if it's getting a truckload of mulch, the other day I was changing the brakes on our van. And this is something I've done for, I don't know, 15, 20 years, just as part of taking care of our cars. And so this time I brought him into it. I had him turning the wrench, but in doing so I encountered a couple things that never happened before. Something broke and I was like, okay.

But for me it was accountability. For me, where I was like, I probably would have gotten mad if I was by myself. But now I got my 11 year old son looking right at me. But I was able to take that opportunity just to tell him actually that I said, hey, in times past I've gotten mad, but did I get mad right here? He was like, no, said, okay, something broke, let's look it up and then we'll fix it.

And then like you mentioned, AI just took A picture told me how to fix it. It was great. And they went again, I don't know. And we went, I know. But it was a great moment just with him of teaching, like, okay, here's a practical skill that you should learn just as part of growing up.

But with that, it's also overcoming that adversity and seeing me in the day to day of, hey, I just ran into something I had never encountered in 15 and 20 years of changing brakes on my cars. But the first time he did it, he learned how to do it. So he's already ahead of me. So it was great. It was a really good, really good experience.

I'll chime in on this. Taylor and I have been accountability partners for a number of years and very, very close in that, and I'm grateful for that. And men, if you don't have an accountability partner in your life, you are missing out on all that God could give to you in someone like this, with friendship. Because I get those text messages of, look at this, I'm teaching him today. Hey, we're doing the yard today.

Other day I sent him a picture of my son wearing like, I don't know, a hoodie. It's like 90 degrees outside. He has his hood on, he's pushing a push mower in the front yard. And we're just like, man, proud dad moments, you know, like our 11 year old sons are learning something and we're just spurring each other on. And I'm telling you right now, if you don't have someone in your life that you can do that with, man, please come see me.

I'd be happy to text with you. Yes, ma'. Am. Stephanie and I exchanged pictures of our coffee mugs that say, go ask your dad. So there's, there's that.

It's very spiritual. So Stephanie, what would you add as far as any thoughts on this dynamic with passing down wisdom? Are you feeling okay with that? Okay. All right, so we got a biggie here.

So, based on the show of hands that were in this room, a multitude of families in our church are raising middle school aged kids, which is all by itself a whole situation. It is an awkward time. Sex, sexuality, raging hormones, pornography, LGBTQ agenda and culture, and our middle schoolers own opinions are all colliding at this age. So this question will be for. We'll start with the browns on this one, but have you begun to address these topics in your home with your kids?

And if so, how has it gone? Has it been terrible, awkward how you equipped yourselves and your kids? Okay, yes, we have. We've talked about all of it. And the only terrible part was the first time we ever had the talk with our oldest.

And I, it was just me, I was panicking on the inside, I was freaking out. But it went great. And actually one of the resources was the Story of Us and we read through a couple of those books with them. So I do recommend that if you've got young ones and want to start. But we've talked about, we talked about all of it and we do strongly believe and encourage parents to be the ones to do the this type of talking.

You guys need to lay the foundation for these topics. They will learn about it and they need to have your, the conversation with you to be the foundation. But we, it's that saying if it, you know, don't make it weird, doesn't have to be weird. So we don't. And we talk about all of the things at the dinner table, in the car, at bed, bedtime, whatever.

We do have a two year old, so we're now training them not to bring certain topics up because he's a sponge. But yeah, it's going great. Really?

Yeah. So talking about practically the importance of being the first ones to tell your children. So our family dynamic, we homeschool our kids. So they're not in public school, they're not even in a private school. They're home with us.

Right. So you think, all right, we homeschool our kids. They're not going to encounter this. Like, that's it. So just, I think it was two weeks ago.

My son's outside playing with his neighbor friends who do go to public school. And now my son, we've already had these conversations and they start saying, hey, Darren, guess what we learned today in school. It was their first day of sex ed. And he immediately said, we shouldn't be talking about this. You should be talking about it.

So I get emotional because I'm proud of him. You should be talking about it with your parents. And, and I'm like, go, buddy. That's right. Like that's what you need to do.

And he came to me and he was like, hey, they're talking about this. I don't know what to do, like how to navigate it with them. So I just told him, I said, well, here it is, plain and simple. Tell them if you continue talking about it, I gotta come inside. That's it.

And so my son, like, he's the most confident, direct, outgoing, strong willed boy. And this is where we can see that strong will.

Working for Good. Amen. Amen.

And he just went right out and he was like, hey, guys, we can't talk about this. It's not appropriate. You should just talk about it with your parents. If you continue, I'm going inside. And they stopped.

And it was great. But here's the thing, and I'll share this personally. That's how I learned about this topic, was my parents weren't intentional. It was my neighborhood friend that came home and was like, guess what we learned today? And that didn't set a biblical framework of how to process and think through this.

So we as parents have this opportunity to share God's intention for marriage, for sex, for all of this with our kids. And to share it in a way so that when they encounter things, they already know what is true. So good. So good.

I was gonna say, y' all have three boys. What you got? Well, I'm a homeschool mom, so this may not feel natural for you, but I feel like we talk about science first. Because it is science, and it's actually really fascinating. God's design, like we talked about.

I remember when we talked to our oldest, we were like, Remember we were learning about flowers and how there's, like, a boy part and a girl part. And then we just started, like, talking about, like, science, like how God's design is amazing. And then it just kind of very naturally segued into telling him God's design for marriage and intimacy. And it was so sweet. I mean, I feel like we were.

I always said, oh, I'm not nervous. And then once I was there, I was like, oh, you know, you just. You want to say it in a way that it will be received. And I just remember he was just leaning back on Danny, like, so comfortable. So comfortable.

So sweet. But, yeah, we've talked about that. We've talked about, you know, bad pictures, what that does to your mind when you see something like that. And again, there's science behind this. So then when you're able to teach them, like, this is how, like, God made things to work.

They believe you. And I also didn't learn from my parents right away. I found out at school, thought it was absolutely disgusting. Came home and told my mom I was gonna be a nun. I really was so upset because I was excited to get married.

And I was like, everything is just falling apart.

So anyway, just don't be afraid of it. Cause the Lord's gonna really help you. And then also, I think we've been talking about how you gotta revisit it. It's not just like a one and done thing, right? Yeah, that's very true.

Yeah. To her point, actually the first time we had the conversation with our oldest, we probably similar to Steph, we're just like, how's this going to go? We're super nervous, we don't know how this is going to hit. And then when we walk through it, he's just like, oh, okay. We're like, how did that happen?

So yes, I mean to that point I feel like we are on the verge at least with our oldest to an age where, you know, as we've referenced intentional father by John Tyson and I've had this conversation with a lot of guys around this, this age range age bracket. I really am starting to think about in the next year, what does that really look like to walk through these more in depth and to get ahead of this thing and to not just have it be a conversation. Because I mean similar to Taylor, that certainly wasn't done for me either. I think my parents just kind of left it up to okay, I guess he's going to find out at a certain age about whatever, but really kind of creating it more of a, you know, ceremony or a marking moment or have other men involved in their lives speak into these things and encourage them for what that looks like moving forward. And my hope is that we are doing it in a way where, you know, we're setting God's standard but at the same time there's not shame around navigating these things and, and that we're putting them in a place where they feel like they can't come to, to talk to us about anything.

I did see another research study that actually said the average young person is exposed to roughly 3,000 hours of formative cultural content annually and 150 hours of explicitly Christian or biblical content. Wow. And so if that's true, I guess the question is, is like who's going to win if we're not being proactive and getting ahead of all of these topics and being the ones that own that conversation. So good. I mean so much.

And especially boys versus girls. Our 11 year old doesn't care about anything other than a sport and a ball. And we're like, what do you think about the girls? What I think about girls? And I was like, well I mean eventually you will.

He was like no I won't. I'll only think about football forever. And I'm like okay, cool. And then seven year old daughter is just like, I just want to have a baby in my belly. And I'M like, how old do I have to be to have a baby on my belly?

And I'm like, it's not about how old you are. I would prefer you to be married. Well, how old ought to be to do that? At least 18. Gosh, that's a really long time from now.

It is, it is. You know what? You should be a babysitter instead of worrying about having a baby in your belly. That's a great idea. And I was like, I know, I'm full of them.

So I just. It's so funny because it's like said 11 year old is like, why would I talk about a girl? They don't run as fast, they don't play football as well as I do. Humility is not a strong suit. And then the seven year old is just like, I just want to have a baby in my belly.

And you just navigate it as it comes. And I'm like, oh man. We're going to have a talk with Anna way before we have it with Jonah because she is just like wants that baby in her belly. So. So.

I have one daughter. Okay, so I'll take all the advice you got. Okay? I'm just telling you. So, a funny story.

Our niece, who is I think three, she's three. The other day she had a water gun and she was walking down the driveway and she was walking with a friend of hers who's a little older, I think eight or nine. And our three year old niece has got the water and she's squirting the flowers and just having the best time. And I'm walking up the driveway from coming to park my car and they're just having the best time. And she says, I'm going to squirt these flowers so they can have babies.

And her friend goes, so they can have what? And it's this concept of, I think for women, because of God's design, it is supposed to be this thing of how do I carry this thing out? How do I make sure that this feels the way God designed it? So something that I talk about oftentimes in settings with men. In fact, I had this conversation today with a man.

Why are men so obsessed with sexuality? Why does it feel like it's just overboard? And think about this. Genesis 1, 1, 2 and 3. We see this story God tells Adam and Eve.

Hey, be fruitful, multiply. Subdue the earth and rule over it. What's the only way you can be fruitful and multiply? But the problem with culture is that the enemy always wants to pervert hey. He put them together first in holy matrimony, in a covenant, and then he blessed them, and then he said to do that.

The problem with culture now is all the stuff of, hey, I can get all the cheap thrills of pornography and none of the commitment or problems with it. And that is anti biblical, and it is not from the Lord. His design is to say, no, you should be able to do these things and have all these different aspects of sexuality in the right context. And of course, we're in a church setting, it's easy to say all these things, but talking about your kids and talking to them about these things, it can be daunting. So I'm going to be super bold right now.

All right? If you are in this room and you're a grown adult, how many of you did not get the sex talk? Okay. Large majority of you in this room. That's got to stop.

It's got to stop. And, Taylor, I'm just so. I'm proud of you, man. Proud of you. I'm thankful you're my friend.

I mean that. And, Danny, the way you are leading your sons, I don't take it lightly. It's a big deal. So I'm done. Okay.

Okay, we're gonna turn the topic, and we're gonna talk about sibling relationships. So we all know that sibling relationships can be tough, and they love each other one minute, and then the next minute, they're still in each other's air that they're breathing. What have you done that has actually helped your kids move from rivalry to genuine care for one another? What? Didn't work?

We're gonna. We're gonna go to our pros for this one. Christensen, what you got for us? What has actually helped your kids move from rivalry to genuine care for one another? Yes.

We'll let you know when we get there. Do you have it figured out? Okay.

No. Yeah. Talking about having three boys, there is a very, very fine line in terms of. Of the way that boys release energy. And we have realized we cannot send them upstairs to get ready for bed together.

It's. It's just not physically possible. Somebody is on the other one's bed. They have to touch each other. Like, it is just constant.

We try to go on family walks, and it turns into, like, I'm going to catch the football over you. And there's just. Yeah. Constant rivalry. So, no, I think we tried to harness that, and Laura's actually done a really good job of.

In the midst of conflict, encouraging them to say something encouraging about each Other in the moment because, yeah, it's constant competitiveness. And I feel like speaking to parents, trying to maintain a level of discipline and maintaining good relationship with siblings is very, very hard too. I think we always want to keep a standard, but it's always easy to take that back. I think one that always keeps sticking out in my head is like, if you guys keep doing that, there's no way we're getting ice cream. And of course in your head it's always like, well, if we don't take them, we're definitely not going.

And I was really looking forward to some ice cream. So I think again, it's like setting that standard and not wavering from it is always hard. Love the honesty. I think a lot of people know Psalm 23, and even as I've gotten older personally, I think the portion of that that stood out to me me is in Psalm 23:4, where it says, your rod and your staff, they comfort me. And I think embracing that mentality of both God's guidance and his loving discipline are necessary and helpful.

And I think with our kids that may not always manifest the way that we want it to in terms of response to both guidance and discipline. But I think there are moments and there are points where if you carry both of those things out, they, they start to understand that. I think creating those parameters and guidelines makes them feel safe too, even if their immediate response to discipline isn't positive. I think another thing that's been good too is that we try to really emphasize our kids strengths or sometimes we call them their smarts. So sometimes we'll just go around and the kids will be like, and he's good at that and I'm good at this and he's good at that and, and just focusing on how they are unique.

And I really try to emphasize, hey, I didn't want three of this child or two of this child. I wanted one of each of you because you're so special and unique and what God has for you to do is completely different from what your brother's gonna do. And he gave you everything you need to do what he called you to do. And, and just saying that in front of them and reminding them, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Living with your siblings, this is training ground for relationships and you have an opportunity.

Yes, you're going to see all of your brother's flaws, but you'll also see all the things he's good at. And you can be his best friend and his biggest cheerleader. And isn't that awesome? That God gave you that gift. So trying.

So good. So good. I like it. I love that. Oh.

So I would say it changes as they change. When our kids were smaller and practically speaking, how we would work through sibling spats, we'd make them hug it out. I mean, and it was brutal, but we would make them hug it out until that tension broke. And. And it would.

And then they would move on and they'd be friends again now that they're a little older. We don't make them do that. But I remind them that selfishness is always going to mess up a relationship. And that's usually the root of what's happening when they're fighting. So we're very intentional about discussing putting others interest above your own.

Let's see. Romans 12, 16, 18 says, Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil.

Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. And so we do have a little story because sometimes it does feel like we have to force the friendship. Now we have an older boy and girl, so they really have it. Have go after it sometimes.

But one recently, one day they were arguing over something, probably something really stupid, but going back and forth. And we were already planning to go on a family walk that night. And so we were like, kind of figuring out, how can we go on a family walk. They're arguing. This isn't going to be fun.

And then we were just kind of like, you know what told Taylor? I was like, I saw this hat once where you put the siblings in a big T shirt and you make them do everything together. And so Taylor ran upstairs, got a T shirt. The T shirt did say, best dad ever. So and we were like, we're still going on a family walk and you have to wear this shirt and you are going to.

I. Please don't judge us.

Please. I feel like I'm being judged. Please don't judge us. They are okay.

We made them. They had to figure it out. We had to cut it to get them both in, but we made them both wear the T shirt. And once. And like, we started going on about our walk and they hated it.

And then eventually it just stopped. Started to again break that tension and soften their hearts. Now they had to learn how to walk together and. And then they just started cracking up. And then eventually one of them tripped and they Were rolling in the grass, and we were all laughing, but did help them.

And now, I mean, we can use it. We can say, do you guys want us to get out the T shirt? They won't. They'll buckle up. But I like it.

It did help. Now, do I recommend that? I don't know. You guys decide. But there are a couple other verses.

The Lord is good, and he gives us wisdom. Right. Romans 12:10 does say, Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. Again, selfishness is why my children fight most of the time.

And then Taylor loves to remind the kids often to get the log out of their own eye before getting the spec out of your brothers or sisters. And so do you want to speak to that? Yeah, because oftentimes, whenever they're arguing, they'll just come to us saying, so and so did this. So and so did this. And often it's like, okay, I'm not going to say they didn't.

But what did you do? Like, what did you bring to the situation? And so because we've quoted this verse so much to them, all I have to say is, where's the log? And that's all I said. And they're like, okay, and start processing through it.

But it just helps because our heart in this is to get their. Direct their eyes off of their sibling and on themselves, to take that personal accountability to what was contributed to the situation. Now, with this, like, Stephanie mentioned, like, this is the one and only time we've used this T shirt. And, like, this example that we thought was hilarious, we. We were laughing the whole time.

But, like, I felt like the Holy Spirit led us to that in the moment. And with things like this, there's been other things that the Holy Spirit has led us to. If it's, hey, we're just gonna sit down and play a game as a family, like, and just connect, or, hey, let's sit down, and Stephanie will take our daughter in one room or our son in one room, and I'll take the other in the other room, and let's actually talk it out. Let's work it out. Let's repent.

Like, so the Holy Spirit leads us in that. And I'd say for. For all of us in these situations where you run into, like, we as parents need to have our ears attuned to the voice of the Holy Spirit so that he can lead us through those situations. Yes. Amen.

That's good. All right, wrapping up the evening to both of you guys. If there are any parents that feel like they have been sitting on the sidelines, they've been busy, distracted, feel like they're failing, or genuinely feel disconnected from their kids. What's some simple things we can do this week to help reengage our children?

Just ask the. Well, ask the Lord. Because I do think it's easy to get overwhelmed when you feel that conviction. And I. I still can feel overwhelmed when I think, oh, time's close, so short, it's going so fast. But he doesn't overwhelm us.

And when we come and ask him, like he says, ask for wisdom and believe that I'm going to give it to you. So he really will just plant ideas in your mind of how to connect with your kids. Just whatever is that next right thing for you to do? He will show you. Amen.

Amen. Denny, I was just going to say be proactive about getting still with God. I know that's really difficult in this season of life. And a lot is happening and there's a lot going on, but you can't pour out if you're not being filled. And I think everybody has that desire, but you have to be filled first.

I would also say you're not alone, and that's why I'm thankful we have something like young families in this ministry. I would also say, like, yes, be proactive about coming to church. Yes, we're built for community. But I think sometimes, and I'm speaking to myself, you have to take a step back and realize that your greatest ministry is in your home.

And so I think kind of just taking that deep breath and realizing that that is the case and that God has and will equip you for exactly what you need there. Amen. Amen. Danny, you guys, alongside all of that, I would say acknowledge and repent of your own sin to your children. That's good.

They need to see you humble yourself when you mess up. That's true. And it's going to be how they learn. And then after that, take the time to reconnect with them in some form. I would recommend not with screens, maybe a game or a walk or one on one time, but specifically feeding your children's love language.

And if you don't know what that is, there's a book for it. There's a book for that.

One thing I feel prompted to say that isn't in our notes here is that in Scripture, God promises that there's. There's therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Amen. And I will be the first to say that the fact that we are sitting up in this chair sharing anything to you all it. We are not the perfect parents.

We are not doing this perfectly in any shape, way or form. I could probably list out how many times I've messed up more than how many times I've gotten it right. But as we've learned along the way and with some of these things that we've shared, if it's the type of thing where you're sitting in your seat and you're like, man, we haven't had the talk with our kids or maybe they found out another way, I just want to encourage you right now that there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. But instead you turn from here, just like we mentioned. Acknowledge where, okay, I missed it here, but acknowledge that.

Repent and turn to the Lord's grace, because he's gonna help you today, he's gonna help you tomorrow. And with that, it's just taking one step at a time, moving forward. Come on. Amen. And I will say this.

Thank you both for the way you guys have shared and poured your heart out tonight. To your point about repentance, a quick story that happened this week where I had to repent to my 11 year old son because I was doggone frustrated about some things and had to take a few minutes before bed and repent to him and tell him, man, I'm sorry. If we don't give our kids the opportunity to forgive us, we rob them of an opportunity to learn how to forgive at all. We have to give them that opportunity, which requires humility on our part. And after I spoke with him, repented, asked for forgiveness, told him I loved him, we sat, we sat on the bed and we had a great conversation for about 15, 20 minutes and just told me about it today and those moments, maybe you never got that as a kid, maybe you never received any of that.

I'm telling you right now, the Holy Spirit has seen every trauma, every burden, every difficult moment, what felt like no one cares. He cares. And what's important also, as we close out this nine hour overtime, I want to make sure you all know our heart as a ministry for young families is that, that hey, if you're in the thick of raising kids, whether it's you're changing diapers or you're figuring out how to change a tire on a car, teaching your 11 year old kid or whatever, there's a place for you at the refuge and young families specifically, we'd love to partner with you and to have time just to share our Hearts and yours with us, you guys and everyone in this room. We need each other. We need community.

We have to do this. We will not be able to change the tide of a generation unless we actually lock arms together. That's the reality. So we're going to close out tonight like this. I want us just to take a second and bow our heads.

Hey, if you. If you feel anything that we spoke about tonight that resonated, I want to just pray over you as parents and grandparents that, hey, like Taylor said, there's no condemnation if you missed it. In Christ Jesus. There's always an opportunity to build a bridge like Laura talked about. Build a bridge, don't burn it down.

And there's an opportunity right now, even in your own hearts and our own hearts, to come before the Lord and ask him. Father, what should we be doing this week? How can we be intentional with our grandkids or our kids? So, Lord, today we come before you, humble ourselves and say, we do not have it all together. I do not have it all together.

These leaders don't have it all together. Father, we are desperately in need of your presence. We're in need, Lord, of your loving kindness that leads us to repentance and therefore to restoration. So, Father, I pray over every man, every woman, every mother and father in this room, every child represented in this room that's either in refuge kids or possibly in youth or at home. Lord, I pray in Jesus name that we would not be a statistic that says, well, another church didn't take the opportunity to talk about the hard stuff.

No, we want to do the hard thing. Lord, I pray that you would prick our hearts, that we would listen and we'd humble ourselves before you. We are not God. You are, sir, and we trust you. We place our faith and our hope in Christ Jesus.

So Holy Spirit, I speak life over every child represented here, every parent represented here, every grandparent. And I say today you have what it takes through Christ Jesus and with him, all things are indeed possible. There is a bridge that can be created to help turn the tide today. And Father, I pray that we be sensitive to your spirit. I thank you, God for the opportunity.

And I say, may the Lord bless you tonight and may the Lord keep you. May the Lord make his face to shine upon you and your household and be gracious to you. May he lift his countenance upon you and his favor upon you. And may you have the peace of God that transcends all understanding with your home, with your children and with your grandchildren. In the name of Jesus, I pray.

Amen.