Selah Ep. 14: Pursuing Dreams In The Right Season

Hello and welcome to the Selah Podcast. I'm your host, Jacob, and I am joined this season with my co host, Pastor Amy. And our guest here today is Pastor Nathan. If you haven't joined us before on the Selah podcast, this is now our third season. And our first, we recommend, really ventured into the spiritual disciplines.

And then over the last summer, Selah, we talked a lot about how on your Christian walk the Lord is faithful to see breakthrough in your life. And so selah is a Hebrew word and it really just means to pause and consider. And so over the next few weeks, as we're having a fast here at our church, we're going to pause and consider what it looks like for the Lord to place a dream in your heart and then to be able to live that out. Pastor Amy, can you tell those who are listening what it looks like for our church to have a 21 day fast? Absolutely.

I think fasting is a time of realignment with the Lord. It is a time where we create an altar. It is a time where we are allowed to lay something down that maybe last year we wasn't able to, we didn't make the time to. But it is just this beautiful time to get back in alignment with what God is saying to us, what he's saying over our family and just to love on him a little bit and sacrifice that. Yeah.

So we're joined here today with Pastor Nathan. Pastor Nathan, could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and why it is we brought you in to interview today? Well, you couldn't find anybody better. That's where we start. And I understand that.

I'm down the hall, so it's an easy call. No, guys, it's a privilege. You know, having been at the Refuge since we started, Selah has been something we've done every single year, you know, and so there really is almost like seasons and holidays to a degree. You look forward to Thanksgiving, you look forward to. Believe it or not, we do look forward to this fasting season.

Not just because of what the Lord produces and because of the weight you can lose. Praise the Lord. But also really about just to what Pastor Amy said. Resetting. Resetting and saying, okay, what are my priorities for this year?

And you guys are talking about dreams and different ideas and God's given me the opportunity to realize some of those in my own regard. And you said you had some questions about that, so I thought I would sit here and just let you fire away. We'll do what we can. Perfect. Yeah.

As we were considering Living out dreams. You came to mind because of some recent opportunities that you had. So it seemed prevalent. But I know for all of my friends who are believers and even those who are not believers, from a young age, you have dreams and they kind of linger. I have three small children under five, and even Taylor, my oldest, already is talking about wanting to drive monster trucks for a living.

He says he's getting one when he was 16. Good queer things. I haven't had the heart to break it to him that you can't just buy those. But don't tell him that at some point, maybe being a monster truck could be an actual dream that the Lord placed on his heart. Who am I to say?

Exactly. That is a profession. That's right. But I think those dreams, from a young age, we have an easy time saying them out loud. And then at some point, we often kind of put them to the side because we found out we weren't good enough or just wasn't practical, whatever it was.

So tell us a little bit about the dream that was placed in your heart when you were young. Yeah, so there's so many. And you said it can change and do. But I grew up in a musical family, and both my parents musicians, both my parents singers. And music was always part of life.

And I was one of the. We were one of those families that grew up, like, watching musicals. I've seen every musical there is. You know, I love it, you know, to some chagrin for some people, but I absolutely love it. But it was very normal.

And singing was part of everyday life in our house. Most. Most days. Not every day. Most days, after dinner, my mom and dad would.

We'd get the guitar out and sing and play. And so I just always loved music. Started playing piano when I was 5, and my dad taught me guitar when I was 11. And I just knew it would always be part of my life. You know, you get a little older and then it's like, man, I'd like to get good at this, you know?

And guitar became more of a primary expression for me. I took piano lessons for years, but guitar was way more fun and. And so then I really wanted to become proficient at it. Well, then the next step is we gotta have a band, you know, and so get the buddies together. You've done some of this, Jacob.

We've talked about that. And Pastor Amy, a singer as well. So you've got some stories here, but got some friends together and would start forming little bands. And then the next thing is you gotta have songs to play. So you write some songs.

And so all that came along, and I don't know at what point it became. I would really like to do this, but it just felt very present. Yeah. And, you know, specifically in my context, because my dad was a pastor, and music and ministry really merged very cleanly in my house. I always kind of associated the two, even though we didn't always sing Christian music.

We were big folkies. My dad, you know, grew up listening to James Taylor. My parents would sing Everly Brothers. I showed you guys a video clip of my mom and dad singing Dream, Dream, Dream. And that was all very normal, but playing songs, worshiping God, playing music.

Not just worship music, but also kind of inspirational, reflective type of music that would cause you to really consider your relationship with God, things like that. I always loved that. And so then as I'm in my teen years, that became something I wanted to do more of. And then when I fell in love with kind of the Vineyard worship movement, those songs of the mid-90s, I really was like, I would love to lead people in worship. And that became a big expression of it in that season as well.

Yeah. I think it's interesting that a lot of the dreams that get planted do play a big role in, like, what your family dynamic was. Because mine didn't really listen to music. Right. I didn't play music till I was 18.

Out of the house. It was never even considered. Yeah. And I was more interested in, like, my parents built homes, and so I wanted to be an architect. I would be drawing house plans at, like.

That's interesting. Which is a weird thing to do. It's so handy, dude. So that probably plays a role, like, how I kind of got into design was more about the thought of being an architect, which was just because that's what my parents were involved around, which is very George Costanza of you. And I'm doing music.

What was your, like, first dreams of a career? Oh, it was music. So, like, my dad could play the piano, my mom would sing. They had a group they would open up for, like, Southern gospel groups. We had a bus.

And so growing up, we toured, and that was my life on the weekends. And so I was like, I'm gonna be a professional singer. And my dream was to lead worship in, like, coliseums. And so I would go to places like acquire the fire, and I would sit there and watch and be like, one day, yeah, I don't even care. I'm not a really good backup vocalist, though.

You don't really want me to get any parts. Can't really sing that very much. We want you out front. We do our best. And if you've never heard Pastor Amy sing, you're missing out.

Cause and I'm instrumentally challenged. Didn't get that from my father. So, you know, it's. That was always my dream. I had a bus picked out, but I was always around it, like, Pastor Nathan.

That was it, man. Yeah. So when did you first see some of that dream grow? And where did it kind of wane? Yeah, so.

And I love that you asked that way, because that's so often the case. It starts and then it can looks like it changes. So, you know, high school, there was a guy. There was a worship artist named Darrell Evans that had several songs out. Songs like Trading My Sorrows, songs like youe Love is Extravagant, Let the River Flow.

Exactly. Kalani came to the church recently. We played that. And it blessed my spirit because it was in that era. And so I was like, man, that is what I want to do.

I saw an artist in my early high school years named Billy Crockett, who was a fingerstyle guitar player, played for the Lord. He used to play acoustic guitar for Rich Mullins, for those that know Christian. And I went to an event where he led, and I was like, that's what I want to do. And then later on, Darrell Evans comes along leading worship. And I'm like, and that's how I want it to look and sound.

And so I began to pursue that. As a matter of fact, the acoustic guitar that I have to this day was Darrell Evans guitar. That's a neat story. I don't have time to tell right now, but God did that for me. And it felt like an affirmation that this was something I was called to do.

So, man, right at High School, 19 years old, very long story. I don't have time for. God made it clear to me that I was supposed to help a friend of mine start a church. And he confirmed that, and it was just unbelievable. And so at 19, I became the worship pastor of a brand new church plant, you know, and it was very interesting to be 19 years old, have people calling you pastor, you know, and not feeling qualified.

I'm 44 and don't feel qualified, you know, but in that those worlds really melded together, ministry and music. And so leading worship started writing songs for our church, which became, you know, our first album that we did as a church. And that's where it was like, man, Lord, this is a gift. But I really felt it in the context of the local Church, even though, you know, when I was 18 at University of Mobile, was, you know, assigned a roommate, a guy I didn't know I'd heard of, but Mike Weaver, who had eventually starts a band called Big Daddy Weave, and kind of plays into this story a good bit where we played together. We did stuff together all the time, you know, whereas that was more events and going and kind of touring almost like what you're talking about.

Pastor Amy I really felt maybe it was because my dad was a pastor. I felt so called to the local church, like being present in community. And so it really blossomed there in Orange Beach, Alabama, where we were, and recorded our first album there. And then when the Lord had us kind of transition in that season, stepping away from that role, I did my first solo album. And it's all still floating out there in the ether on Apple Music and Spotify and whatever else.

A little plug. Nathan Wesley Smith. You use your middle name and your last name is Smith because, wow, there's a lot of us. There's a lot of us out there. I'm not saying the quality is worth going after, but, hey, I was 20 years old on some of that stuff.

Go support your pastor. Go support your pastor. But with that, it was really just an awesome opportunity to pursue the dream. Just write the songs, play the music. And eventually made my way to North Carolina to help start the refuge and kept doing it.

I think it's. As you were talking, I was considering this thought that when you have a dream, you naturally, at some point start praying about it. Like, whether you intentionally decided to. At some point you did. So, you know, every night when you go to bed and you have your nighttime prayer, it's like, I used to pray, like, no dreams or nightmares, you know, or like, you know, for the little things.

Lord, give me that PlayStation. I want. But we can kind of like, as, like, leaders, kind of like, encourage people, like, always be about admonishing the Lord and thanking him and all that, right? And that's to try to get us away from just being like, lord, give me that RC car when you're little. But on the flip side, I think when he places a dream in your heart, there is somewhat of a duty in our minds to, like, be in prayer with the Lord about that dream.

And it's not just, lord, make me a famous musician. Make me a famous musician. But it's like, show me the opportunities, guide the steps, walk me along the path. You know, like, give me wisdom. To what action steps am I supposed to take about that?

I Think even in regards to having pastored, you guys are pastors at the moment, like, that isn't a common dream, I think. But at some point, you start praying about it. Like, lord, is this you? Exactly, yeah. What did that look like for both of you as you've kind of started to feel that call or opportunity?

Where did prayer and or fasting come into that mix? Yeah. Anything on top of your head? So I think one of the things that you said that stood out to me is when God gave you a dream about music, he allowed you to see what you wanted it to look like and be able to hear the way you wanted it to sound. And I think when you're praying into your dream, the specifics matter.

Because when I pray to be like, a singer, a musician or a pastor or a business owner or a parent, even like, God, give me the strategy of what you want it to sound like and look like, because otherwise you'll duplicate something. And God, he didn't call us to be a duplicate. He called us to be an original. And I think when you have that, when you're praying, it is beautiful. Like, God, what kind of armor do you want me to wear so you're not trying to wear somebody else's?

And I think in that transition, and I kind of asked you a little about a bit about this before, I think the transition of laying down, it almost felt like, to me, maybe not to you, because I know you were leading worship here when you came. When I transitioned from being on a worship team to a pastor, I had to sacrifice my dream. It's frowned upon to be the worship leader and the pastor, you know what I'm saying? Can't really do both of those. And I wept.

Like, I was devastated because this was the bus, this was the dream, this was the moment. And I was like, well, that's not. That's not going to happen. But I think having his peace was better than having my way. And I literally had to.

Like you said, I had to sacrifice that laid on the altar and say, you know what, God? If this is what you want from me in this time, then I accept it. But what does that look like for you, though? Like, when they were like, hey, you're not gonna be the. I don't know how that went, but, like, hey, maybe this isn't the best fit anymore.

I really need you. Another capacity. Did you feel that pressure of, like, having to sacrifice? Like, man, I did all these things. I recorded all these albums.

Mike Weaver's my best friend, for goodness sake. And Here I am. Like, what was I like? 100%. Yeah.

So after 10 years here in North Carolina, the Refuge, being the worship pastor, it came clear to me that it was time to transition. Not because I stopped loving music, not because I stopped feeling I even had an anointing or a gift to lead worship. There were other things I wanted to grow in. And as, you know, if you. If you kind of get pegged as music person, that's kind of the opportunities you get are musical, you know, which is not a bad thing unless you want to grow in something else.

And there's just not bandwidth. And so I needed that. And then also, we were in a season of the growth of our church. We were doing four services every weekend. I had three young kids.

That's tough. It was just very, very hard. It was just very hard to keep the momentum, to manage all of that. And so we were about to build a new campus. We started a new.

New campus in Salisbury at the time. So it just was like, you know, I don't know that I can keep running at this speed, and. And I want to grow in these other areas. And so that transition came, and it was confusing to people, which also could make it a little bit confusing to me at times, because I felt good about it. I didn't feel like I was giving up on my dream, my call, my gift, but I did feel like it was taking a bit more of a backseat, and I felt like I had some peace about that.

But then people don't always have peace about that. And they're like, well, how come you're not? And why aren't you? And you're like. Then you start saying, well, why?

You start doubting yourself a little bit. And then as time goes on, you want to support others in that. And in a lot of ways, I feel like that's a great call to be able to support others and the things that are important to you. But to your point, Pastor Amy, all of a sudden, I told Pastor Jay one time, I was in a. It's a.

It's like this new season for me. Early on, I was so used to. Although I didn't realize it, I was so used to people knowing what I did at the church because they see me every Sunday. Yeah, I'm on the platform. Well, of course, you're the worship.

We see you every week. You know, then it's like, now, do you work here? You know, and you're like, oh, that is the weirdest thing in the world. Not because it's wrong or bad. I had never experienced that before because everything I had done had been very visible.

Right. And so now I'm not on the platform as much in this, especially early on. So I felt the Lord used all of that in my life to really say, so what is important? Why are certain things important to you? Is it important to you that people know what you do?

Is it good enough that I know what you do? Things like that. But you definitely feel to more specifically answer your question, there came a point where it felt like, well, maybe that season is done. Yeah, maybe. And asking the Lord about that, you know, I've always.

I probably overcomplicate things. That's one of my spiritual gifts. But I think for me personally, like, am I stewarding it now? Now that became a real, almost a haunting question. Like, am I stewarding these gifts that God's given me, or have I buried them?

Yes. And I'm like, I don't want to bury them. That's not what I'm trying to do. But I was also getting more opportunities to teach and speak and be more engaged, you know, in community, and I wanted that. So it felt complicated for a time, and I didn't necessarily feel good about it and felt like maybe I was failing or I was being disobedient or it got confusing for a little bit.

Yeah, for sure. So to recap for our listeners, even for myself, look at you. From early on, music was in your life always. You had dreams of what that could look like. You stumbled right into it right out of high school, ended up pastoring many music, writing music, all of that, and then were as worship pastor.

But at a point in that journey, you shifted more towards pastoral leadership. And then it felt like a lot of the music journey was at its end or on pause. I'm sure some days you were like, it's just a pause. And other days you're like, am I ever going to do this? I'm washed up.

Does anybody care? Yeah, totally. Yeah. So at what point did you start to see the gears really start turning again back towards the direction of, like. No, I think the Lord has more for me.

And how did you kind of approach that? I think in some of that, it really just. I don't know that the gears did start turning back. I feel like, for me, it became, do I love music or not? And I just do.

And so I just made sure I was playing at home like I used to, because it's like a lot of things, once it becomes an occupation, then, you know, you're going to play at certain times, at rehearsals, on weekends, and whatever else you practice from time to time. But you've kind of got built in times. It's almost like school friends. They're your friends because you see them all the time. You know, when school is out, you don't see them as much, you know, so in that same regard.

So then I was just like, well, Lord, I love to worship you and I love to play my instruments, so I shall make sure I'm doing that. And I just kept doing that, you know, in the secret place and on my own and for fun and support others and any way I could support anyone else that was doing something, can I come alongside and help? Which is something I feel called to do. And then, honestly, it almost felt like out of the blue, my buddy Mike called. And, you know, he.

And he's got his own stories that he's told with his brother passing away and their band, you know, being consistent for 25 years and the success they've had. He was like, man, do you even think it's remotely possible that you could be a part and come play with us? You know? And, you know, I didn't. Even after.

After living together When I was 18, you know, 25 years later, I never in a million years would have dreamed that that opportunity would come along in this season of life. Yeah. But here's the one takeaway with that. Yes, the music piece has always been a dream of mine, but I had other dreams as well. And one of those dreams was to be a good husband.

And one of those dreams was to be a very present father. And that literally was a dream of mine, you know, and I would not have been able to go and do and be home and present and accomplish the other things that were in my heart all at the same time. I'm not saying people that travel don't desire to be a good husband or anything. That's not what I'm saying. For me, personally, I just don't know how it would have worked and been plugged into community life and serving my church.

So for 25 years later, for an opportunity to come, to just be plugged into some of that, where they're traveling a whole lot less as well, which is. Makes it even remotely doable. You know, when that call came and I talked to Pastor Jay and, you know, he had. He was willing to even explore. What could this look like?

I mean, honestly, I can't. I can't believe it. So you said something that was so great. You were talking about the secret place and making up in your mind that even if people didn't see you writing songs or hear you playing because you loved it, because it was something that God instilled in you, you still maintain time in the secret place. And so for people listening, that sometimes they neglect the secret place.

I think listening to this, they can understand the power of the secret place not to neglect that. That it isn't about. Sometimes dreaming isn't about who sees your dream or who knows. It's between you and God and him being able to trust you whether people know that you're doing it or not. And then now, seeing the fruit of that, it was all preparation for this call that you had no idea was gonna come.

Like, what would have happened if you didn't have a secret place with your guitar? The call was still gonna come, but God knew it even when you didn't. And because of the preparation in the secret place, it was coming. And so for the listener, that's like, hey, you're planning the baby, you're planning the marriage, you're putting down money for the house. Cause that's your dream.

You don't know when the call is coming for that. So to be encouraged to stay diligent. The secret place, because it matters. And I love that. Pastor.

And you said something before we started recording about time. What did you say? Time is not the enemy. It's not the enemy. And I think a lot of times when it comes to dreams, and this story is a product of that, like, time is not a thief.

And it doesn't matter if you're 50 years old when you buy your first house. It doesn't matter if you have a baby at 45, the promise is still secure. And I think that is the thing, that. That's why people stop dreaming, because they feel like they've ran out of time. But time is an opportunity for us apply, to learn, to cultivate, to grow, to even die to ourselves in some areas.

So when the call comes, we are more prepared than we ever thought we would be. And you are a product of that, man. And it's awesome. I had a sermon on David a few years back, and just about his preparation season. It was about receiving the mantle, you know?

And, like, the time between anointing and being king was like two decades, you know, but we just. We love to read the story and. Right. The Bible story. Beat it up.

He hits Goliath, and that. That guy is king, you know, even. And everything's great. I just read Lord of the Rings for the first time. The first one and between Frodo getting the ring and Gandalf coming back is 17 years.

The movie makes it seem like it's a couple of weeks in 17 years. Yeah. Preach that good word. So I think it's just important to remember, like, prep preparation seasons to reach a dream. Like, do take time.

Yeah. And it doesn't happen overnight. I think we like to glorify the overnight thing. Yeah. But 17 years is maybe what it takes to raise that kid, to be able to take the next step of the dream.

There's so, so much truth in that. And, you know, the. The delay doesn't necessarily mean that it's over, you know, and so, you know, getting a chance to be on tour with Big Daddy Weave and do some stuff with them and do ministry in that and do music, just, it feels like. And to do it with friends I've had all of my adult life while not having to lose community and connection and everything God's given us here at the refuge just. I don't even know.

I don't even know how to feel. I just am so grateful, you know? So keeping in mind that our fast is starting this Monday and we're inviting people to refuge and those outside the refuge to take part in this 21 days, we're really trying to encourage them to consider during that time, don't just go hungry, but as you're praying and you're fasting, consider what dreams the Lord's placed in your heart and where in that journey you are. Is it on pause? Are you coming right up to it?

Has it finished? Are you ready to be thankful about it? What would you kind of encourage someone who's about to start fasting? Like, what headspace should they be in? What steps should they be taking?

Man, just some things that are helpful to me.

I do best when I write things down. Right. So what I mean by that is whatever you felt the Lord's asked you to do, whether it's liquids only or whether it's sun up to sundown, or you're gonna fast, one meal a day, whatever you feel, God, write it down. Just for the accountability's sake. But then make some notes.

Like, literally, even if you're not a journal or if you're not someone who writes a lot, that's okay. What has God put in your heart? Write it down. What are you praying about? Write it down.

There's something about pen and paper that just almost makes you clarify because you gotta have something to write, you know, it's. Well, I'm thinking this. Okay, great. Write it down. And.

Because the other part of that is then you can go back and look specifically, has this happened? When did I start praying about that? Oh, that was on the first day of Selah, because I wrote this. It's day 14, and this breakthrough just happened. Maybe the whole thing hasn't taken place, but now I like to tell people it's almost like reading a book with a pen in your hand.

When you do that, you've trained yourself. I'm looking for something. If you'll read with a pen in your hand, you've already decided there's something in here worth underlining. So now I'm on a hunt. When you pray and write things down now, as you live your day, you're kind of on the lookout.

I wonder how the Lord's going to do it. It just focuses your attention. And so, man, make some little notes. Whether it's one or two sentences, just write down the things that are in your heart and things that happen in a day. Write it down.

Just write it down. Whether you write a page or whether you write just a sentence or two, you take a note on your phone, there's just something about that that helps you remember. I'm in a process. It's not just, yeah, I'm hungry. I'm in a process.

I'm talking to the Lord, and maybe he says something to you. Write that down. I mean, that's my encouragement. Write it down. I just think that you will see so much fruit in that, and it gives you an ebenezer to go back to and look at and say, you know, it was by God's grace he brought me this far, you know, so that would be my encouragement.

Awesome. Well, I just want to thank you, Pastor Nathan, for joining us today. Thank you, guys. And I just want to encourage our listeners, if you're considering starting this fast and are unsure, give it a day, give it five days. You might be surprised at how far you can make it.

And as you're on the journey, if you want to share your story with us, you can go to testify.therealFuge.net, we'd love to hear how the Lord is working in your life. So thank you for joining us today.